Arturo: Who is the Best Basketball player of all time?
I-Ching Response:
This is a time for dealing with reality as it is, not as you would have it be.
If you realize that in this situation you are the receptor, not the transmitter of the stimulus, you will find yourself reaching goals that seemed unattainable under your own steam.
If you persist in futile efforts to be the Shaper rather than the Shaped, you will completely miss this unique opportunity.
Reading courtesy of http://www.ichingonline.net/
I got an email yesterday.
Arturo,
[12:05:04 AM] Andres H Alvarez: Evening
[12:09:20 AM] Me: Loved the championship post idea
[12:09:28 AM] Me: Wanna tag team it?
[12:10:23 AM] Me: I figure we do championship shares
[12:10:49 AM] Me: so you need 16 playoff WP for a championship
[12:11:03 AM] Me: and (12 -15 for older seasons)
[12:14:10 AM] Me: I have the old playoff data
[12:14:54 AM] Andres H Alvarez: the “they need a title” is bad bad metric
[12:23:59 AM] Me: lemme get to work.
[12:24:05 AM] Me: I have inspiration
The key questions on which that piece turns (and in fact most of my writing ): What makes a basketball player great? How do we quantify greatness? Can we quantitatively measure a person’s value and contribution?
If you know me by now, you know that is a question that I cannot possibly let go (and neither can Dre remember we’re tag-teaming this)
This led to my question to the I-Ching above. Following it’s advice I surrendered myself to the universe and prepared myself to be the conduit. Just what is the universe trying to tell me?
In life, It’s always hard to come up with a simple criteria on how to evaluate people. The simplest way to do so is to set some clear and simple goals. Then you set up a mechanism to measure progress and completion against that goal and pretty soon you have a clear framework for measuring success and evaluating performance.
When I set goals for evaluation for my work teams, I follow the SMART Criteria.
We want goals that are Specific,Measurable,Attainable, Realistic and that must be achieved by a specific point in Time for each individual . The simpler and clearer they are, the better.
What prompted this course in management theory 101? Well, the simple fact is that what works in the business world should work in the basketball world. The first step to evaluating greatness on the court is figuring out what the ultimate goal is.
And as the I-Ching, It’s not about what I think or expect but about what the basketball gods wants to say through me. The question posed is how do we evaluate and rate Basketball Players? The first thing we must ask ourselves is what is our SMART goal.
The answer is of course 30 to 16 to 1.
30 to 16. When looking at the NBA, we typically focus our energy on what happens in the regular season to turn thirty regular season teams into 16 playoff teams. 16 to 1. The true goal of any NBA season is to turn thirty teams into one champion.
So the conceit of the Bleacher Report piece, a true great wins a championship is not wrong. If the goal is to win it all, greatness on the court has to be measured in terms of the contribution to winning a championship.
The goal is thus clear let’s set to building a metric.
The Championship Metric:
Does this look like the right answer?
Rank | Player | Minutes Played in Playoffs on a Championship Team since 1978 |
1 | Michael Jordan | 4801 |
2 | Scottie Pippen | 4723 |
3 | Robert Horry | 4301 |
4 | Kobe Bryant | 4247 |
5 | Magic Johnson | 3538 |
6 | Tim Duncan | 3359 |
7 | Shaquille O’Neal | 3211 |
8 | Kareem Abdul-Jabbar | 2998 |
9 | Derek Fisher | 2936 |
10 | Dennis Rodman | 2846 |
11 | Horace Grant | 2596 |
12 | Larry Bird | 2481 |
13 | Michael Cooper | 2458 |
14 | Tony Parker | 2423 |
15 | Ron Harper | 2257 |
16 | Bruce Bowen | 2253 |
17 | Dennis Johnson | 2204 |
18 | James Worthy | 2203 |
19 | Byron Scott | 2090 |
20 | Manu Ginobili | 2034 |
21 | Robert Parish | 1970 |
22 | Hakeem Olajuwon | 1918 |
23 | Pau Gasol | 1844 |
24 | Kevin McHale | 1713 |
25 | A.C. Green | 1660 |
That’s a table of the players who’ve played the most minutes on championship teams since 1978. I can appreciate Jordan at the top of this list but Horry over Magic, Bird, and Shaq? Fisher at nine? Simple presence on the court on a championship team is to simplistic a measure.
Luckily we have better measures to use (at this point I remind you that we are powered by NerdNumbers and if you have questions you’ll need to go to the Basics where there are links and I make with the explainy, remember if you don’t the narrator reserves the right to be have his way with you in the comments section).
Winning the Championship is about winning in the playoffs. A team needs 16 wins in the playoff to win it all now (and 12 or 15 at different times in the past).
Year | Wins to Championship |
1978 to 1983 | 12 |
1984 to 2002 | 15 |
2003 to Now | 16 |
A player’s greatness should be a function of his contribution to winning a championship. His wins. His share of a championship. If I take the Wins Produced by each player in the playoffs and divide it by the wins required to win a title I come up with a nifty little metric : Championships Produced.
With championships produced, I can do the following table:
Magic, Jordan, Pippen, Duncan, Bird, Shaq, Rodman and Kobe are the champions. This top eight looks more like it. It meets all our criteria, players on championship teams who produced the most championships. Simple. Straightforward.The end.
Maybe thirty years ago but not now. Didn’t a pitcher with a 13-12 just win a Cy Young? A great player gives you a chance to win but other factors (roster, injuries and luck) out of his control play a part in him winning that elusive ring. Players should be judged on what they do. So let’s expand this to include all the players in the playoffs.
37 Champions. Each of the players on this list from the top to the bottom gave us fantastic playoff moments. Everyone played in the Finals. Magic is on a planet of his own of course.
Let’s illustrate the point. If we look at the top 25 Playoff performances since 1978:
Duncan in 2003 takes the crown followed by the Legend in 1984 and Shaq destroying the league in 2000. That’s a kickass top three. Only four people feature more than once though: Wallace and Jordan twice, Bird features 4 times.
Magic features 8 times. It seems if were talking greatness in basketball there’s just one answer.
Still here?
I did promise you an awesome poster.
Feel free to stare and link :-).
Devin
02/19/2011
Damn – why didn’t I think of this idea? I can’t argue with the process or the results.
Although I have one correction to offer – you said that all the players on your final list had made the NBA finals, but there is one exception: Steve Nash. He has the dubious honour of being the best player to never make the Finals.
ClipFan
02/19/2011
Great work, man. We have yet to see a point guard with Magic’s production in this generation.
On another note, is it possible for you to make another defense-adjusted wins produced chart for the last couple months or the season?
Fred Bush
02/19/2011
How about also listing % of their teams’ playoff WP generated by each player? If your team is loaded, you’re much more likely to play more games in the playoffs (and thus generate more lifetime playoff WP). The guys who basically singlehandedly willed their way to a title (like Olajuwon) are the epic winners to me.
Put another way, does Robert Horry really belong in this conversation?
marc
02/20/2011
Championships produced.
First michael jordan entry is 23… funny one
arturogalletti
02/20/2011
Marc,
He does sit comfortably at number 2 all time. It’s just the top 25 is mostly Magic and career years. Bird, Jordan, Wallace and Magic are the only player to be in there more than once.
marc
02/20/2011
Just thought 23 as being his number and all, pretty funny coincidence
arturogalletti
02/20/2011
Marc,
Sorry about that. Just flew over my head. I guess I’m touchy 1st thing in the morn. 🙂
Marc
02/21/2011
No Problem Arturo, I’m reading quite a lot of the articles of the “network”.
So I can see where you were coming from.Keep up the good work 😉
Charlie
06/02/2011
Way too confusing and what is the purpose?? Championships determine the quality/value of the player?? KOBE #18 ?? Obviously Maurice Cheeks and Horace Grant would be more important on a team at any level than KOBE…………..right! His 5 rings were a direct result of his efforts, the lack of Hall of Fame players (other then Shaq) at his side attests to that fact.
Too bad your NBA exposure didn’t include the real greats……Baylor and West, but they didn’t win championships, but 1.
arturogalletti
06/03/2011
Charlie,
Kobe is a good player. That said, he’s played on some monster teams.
I only have data going back to 1978 sadly. We are working on expanding this (we’ve got a model in the works). All timers will be nice to add. I’ll probably split the data pre and post merger though.